Following a record-breaking run in the West End the National Theatre, Olivier award-winning production of Dear England comes to Salford from 29th May for a four-week run.
Written by award-winnng writer James Graham (Sherwood, BBC) and directed by Rupert Goold (Patriots, Cold War), this incredible play tells the uplifting, inspiring and often emotional story of Gareth Southgate’s revolutionary tenure as England manager. We all know the feelings of hope, heartbreak and elation being an England fan entails, Dear England dramatises this incredibly through one of the most ground-breaking and exhilarating pieces of theatre you’re ever likely to see as the reality of expectation and reality play out.
Ahead of its arrival in Salford next month we headed to the capital to catch this 5-star production and chat with four of the plays talented cast. Gwylim Lee (Gareth Southgate), Liz White (Dr Pippa Grange), Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford) and Jude Carmichel who makes his stage debut as Marcus Rashford.
How challenging is it to play such well-known characters who are so prevalent in the media?
Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford) : You don’t get much in terms of characterisation when they’re on the pitch they are very much their player self and the same really in the post-match interviews so you’re gonna have to go digging for scenes like in the locker room for example when it’s just them and you have to kind of make your choices with the characterisation that you make that’s when you get to play around a little bit. I think you don’t want to ever become a caricature of that person because they are so prevalent at the other top of their field, and they are still at the top so you still want to be able to serve them and also holding in mind the ideas from the play of what they have learnt and their ark from what Southgate has taught them.
Gwylim Lee (Gareth Southgate): I think we benefited during Southgate’s tenure from them opening up to the England fans with social media and everything else because we now get to see those YouTube videos for instance that go behind the scenes at St Georges and that’s really illuminating because when you watch them do post-match interviews they present in a version of themselves which is quite considered and placed for the media whereas when you see them in those videos when they’re with the inflatables in the swimming pool or just messing around that’s when you see them kind of free and without those constraints.
While you’re not a caricature of Gareth Southgate and I just wonder how much study you did because your interpretation is so convincing.
Gwylim Lee (GS): You start from the outside in when you’re working with a real person, which is kind of the opposite way round to how I would probably usually approach a character ’cause so much of it is just there for you to find but I suppose the trick is to find the whys, you know constantly ask that question, the physicalities like ticks and twitches and whatever his mannerisms might be, I wonder why he moves like that what is it about his character that makes him move like that. When you start filling in that kind of light and shade and that detail then it becomes less a mechanical thing and more a matter of character or intent you can let the mannerisms play out through the intentions that you are playing in the scene and the person that you’re in a scene with and all that stuff so that’s the hope anyway. We’re not impersonators, we’re actors and so the aim of an actor I hope is to try and find humanity of the character and also to find you in that character a little bit so it’s like this is very much my version of Gareth, I’m not trying to be a Rory Bremner or whoever else and yes they’re talented in what they do but I think it’s a different kind of craft so it’s just about trying to find your version cause we’re all playing those real people.
The staging is so impressive featuring three revolves, how much of a challenge is that when you’re performing?
Josh Barrow (JP): We had a whole portion of the rehearsals to learn how to use the revolves as it’s three tiers so one goes this way, the other goes this way, the other goes that way so we do we have to really practice hard how to walk on a moving stage.
Liz White (Dr Pippa Grange): I wasn’t there that morning and when we were in the rehearsal room doing the second scene when Pippa meets the security guard and then she walks through the locker and then has to cross all revolves, literally every time I was doing a Frank Spencer, going flying, thankfully I’m alright now ha ha.
Gwylim Lee (GS): You’ve just got to be braced for it at all times, just keep your knees slightly flexed, jut in case it goes!
Liz White (Dr PG): I don’t know if anyone else gets it, but I find when I’m on a train platform I suddenly get that moving sensation like the floor is moving.
Jude, how does it feel knowing you’re going to be playing Marcus Rashford a stones throw from Old Trafford?
Jude Carmichal (MR): When my agent called me to say I’d got the job it was like the fear came through, I was thinking when we go to Manchester everyone’s gonna be like ‘Go on then’ ha ha.
Gwylim Lee (GS): When you get closer to the weekend you get some football crowds in and that’s really that’s really fun ’cause you know you’ll have people that react when the players come out and say I’m Leicester City or Man City etc, I love it.
Josh Barrow (JP): We feed off that really, when you go to the theatre you sit down, you watch the show, you applaud the actors but I think with this it almost demands participation, it’s like we’re gonna throw this out to you and there’s laughs and cheers even boos but then it culminates in this a massive party at the end which is Sweet Caroline and I think the more a crowd lean into that and the more a crowd really give themselves over to you the more fun. As you said (Gwylim) when we do get some football fans in an audience that end moment is just wild, almost like a rock concert.
Gwylim Lee (GS): We talked in rehearsals a lot about having A’s, B’s and C’s so A’s would be your football buffs people that you just know everything all the way back and then C’s being that polar opposite. I’m probably a C+, maybe even a B now. But the play appeals to all three it has to appeal to all three of those audiences at any one time people come not knowing anything about football but it resonated on a different level and then polar opposite people come expecting it to be a football play which it is but then it’s a kind of Trojan Horse it’s about so much more.
This play feels so special because while we know the outcome we all watched and still felt hopeful, thinking just maybe just maybe…
Josh Barrow (JP): You clock audience members at the end of like the penalties at the end of Act One and everybody knows how it goes as it was such a big moment, but everyone is sat watching gripped and is so engaged, it’s just perfect.
Jude Carmichal (MR): You kind of get swept up in it, while you know the outcome obviously, you know what it means to be a fan watching and then even the aftermath whether that be good or bad you know that meaning, you can’t help but get caught up in it.
Josh Barrow (JP): With penalties it’s almost like the Colosseum there’s a roaring crowd cheering and cheering then this one person steps up in front of everybody and its gladiatorial and you feel that with the audiences that everybody’s watching you.
Jude Carmichal (MR): When Harry misses his penalty every time backstage I’m like arrggghhhhh.
Gwylim Lee (GS): It’s testament to these guys as well, because it’s a show it has to have a shape to it and a choreography to it which has to be kind of the same every night you know ’cause there’s a production that fits in around it but you can’t just go through the motions and do the moves, these are young athletes at the pinnacle of their game at the highest level of performance with adrenaline coursing through their bodies and you can’t just run to the penalty spot and take it, you’ve gotta fill it with all of that and they do every night they do and every rehearsal they do like there is no let up for the boys they work so so hard and that’s what sells it really.
Josh Barrow (JP): With Jordan Pickford when he’s on stage there’s so much tension, he’s almost rattling in the best kind of way and again that goes back to what we were saying before about making them real people I’m sure Jordan Pickford doesn’t go home and he’s like that, when he’s in the scenes in the class room that’s when you get to play around with it a little bit more, there’s not just that one version of him so you think about how he’d respond to Pippa to Gareth to the other players. It almost feels like an engine constantly running, I keep that image in my mind, everybody else is charged as well and you have that feeling that the keeper at the back like the last line of defence.
Have any of you performed at the Lowry before?
Gwylim Lee (GS): I was part of a tour years ago where we did King Lear up there with Derek Jacobi, I’m looking forward to going back, I love it, it’s a beautiful theatre and a perfect match to the Olivier, it’s a very similar kind of spaces and a great city it’s gonna be fun taking it to a new audience up there and seeing how they’ll respond to it.
There are so many themes in this play what do you want audiences to take away from it?
Gwylim Lee (GS): It was very interesting watching Gareth Southgate’s lecture last week and it feels like everything that was kind of touched on in that lecture is the heart of this play and it really is about resilience and belief and it’s trying to give people resilience and really encourages resilience and belief in people.
Liz White (Dr PG): Masculinity is an interesting part of it too, I’ve really enjoyed researching Pippa because I get to listen to all her strategies and her approaches for a better, calmer life and one that’s filled with deeper joy and deeper loss as well. She talks about how to lose, someone laughed today as I said well England have to learn how to lose and I thought, yes I can imagine it sounds quite defeatist but actually what she’s just saying is if you can look at it in a very reflective way and let that feed the way you approach your next battle or your next match…so I feel kind of infused by her lessons really and I hope that for people watching it as well to look at the way they approach things differently in a more whole, holistic way.
Gwylim Lee (GS): I think one of my favourite things of Pippa’s is when she talks about winning that’s kind of inferred in the play is the idea of winning deep and winning shallow and there’s a difference to just winning at all costs. It’s like winning with integrity and winning you know with depth.
Liz White (DR PG): I feel like that means that actually if you got out there and play with integrity after all your prep and put the effort in regardless of the outcome you’ve won. I think interestingly when COVID gets mentioned it’s so poignant as we’re not far away from it and yet we have enough time for hindsight to come in and when the Euro’s came to Britain as a bit of a surprise for us all it was the first time a lot of people have been able to go out together and even watching it from home we really needed it you needed to see.
Gwylim Lee (GS): We need these national moments of togetherness because when have them you realise how brilliant this country is and how great the people in it are and it’s a divided world at the moment, even at times a divided society. When Gareth wrote that Dear England letter it was a galvanizing moment, encouraging people to come together, there’s something about this country and when we do come together it’s brilliant and has power and strength and it can be glorious. He says I tell my players that what we are all a part of is an experience that lasts in the collective consciousness of our country and there is such a thing as a collective consciousness of England. I think that’s why this play has such power because it taps into that collective consciousness and hopefully that’s what audiences take away from it. There’s hope, there’s joy, there’s power in being together.
Liz White (Dr PG): On a very base level all of those things say, you’re not alone. Someone else is there having the same experience as you, it’s so powerful.
Gwylim Lee (GS): There are a lot of parallels, sport is about performance, we’re dealing with fear, I was scared about taking on this job,I read the script and thought yes you’ve got to take on your fears and go for it. Put yourself in the uncomfortable position and see what happens.
Dear England opens at The Lowry on Thursday 29th May and runs until Sunday 29th June tickets and further information are available here.
The born to rule attitude of the Tories is displayed superbly by opposition whips William Chubb, Matthew Pidgeon and Giles Cooper, sneering and entitled for whose Boys club loyalty and a great suit is a must.
This House is a true ensemble piece with a fine display of character acting, there is game playing, childishness, flamboyance, passion and genuinely moving moments all wrapped up in an enormously funny script. Jeremy Herrin and Jonathan O’Boyle’s innovative direction ensures the piece is slick and packs the intended political punch. The inclusion of an on stage band adds further depths and pace of the piece ensuring smooth, sharp scene transitions.
This House is an inspired and engaging production, the eccentricities of Westminster acted out by the enormously talented cast is genius. Where there is plotting and scheming there is also camaraderie and genuine affection. The superbly crafted characters have exactly the same demons we see today, do they put principles before party in the battle of idealism versus reality? This beautifully scripted piece could so easily be set in 2018, scarily relevant and a sobering testament to the fact that despite the stakes being so high nothing ever really changes.
Opening Night 